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S&P 500 Changes and Big Market Moving Events | LPL Financial Market Signals Podcast

September 04, 2018

LPL Financial

Ryan Detrick and special guest Jeff Buchbinder discuss the S&P 500 sector name changes and why September is historically the worst month for stocks.

The biggest change [in the S&P 500] is that the Telecom sector is not going to be a defensive, yield-orientated sector anymore. It’s going to be faster growing, more economically sensitive.

- Jeff Buchbinder - Equity Strategist for LPL Financial

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There is a big change coming for investors, as the Telecommunication Services sector is being renamed the Communications Service sector. This will not only transform the communications sector but also change the makeup of the Consumer Discretionary and Information Technology sectors. How this affects investors’ portfolios, especially those investors employing sector strategies, will be important going forward.

For now, the month of September is a worry for investors as it has historically been the worst month for stocks. Since 1950, the S&P 500 has been down 0.5% on average during the month of September. Over the past 20 years, stocks have struggled during this month. The good news? The worst September drops tend to take place when stocks are already in a downtrend. That’s the opposite of the current five-month win streak.

Also discussed: are valuations really that high, is this just like 1987, and what market-moving events should be on investors’ radars for the rest of the month?

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September historically is one of the worst months of the year for the S&P 500. In fact, since 1950 no month has a worse average return than September at -0.47%. Recently this has played out as well, as over the past 20 years, only August has seen a worse average return.

 

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Historically, the worst six months of the year for stocks take place from May until the end of October. What is unique about this year is that isn’t the case, as the S&P 500 has been higher each of the past five months. This is actually a good thing, as the usually troublesome September has done much better and the final four months of the year have been higher every single time (5 for 5).

Listen to Episode 3 from Monday, August 20 discussing the bull market and emerging markets

Listen to Episode 4 from Monday, August 27 discussing earnings and Fed minutes

 

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Disclosures

The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investment(s) may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. All performance referenced is historical and is no guarantee of future results.

The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted and there can be no guarantee that strategies promoted will be successful.

Investing involves risks including possible loss of principal.

All indexes are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directly. Unmanaged index returns do not reflect fees, expenses, or sales charges. Index performance is not indicative of the performance of any investment.

The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index is a capitalization-weighted index of 500 stocks designed to measure performance of the broad domestic economy through changes in the aggregate market value of 500 stocks representing all major industries. The modern design of the S&P 500 stock index was first launched in 1957. Performance back to 1928 incorporates the performance of predecessor index, the S&P 90.

All information is believed to be from reliable sources; however LPL Financial makes no representation as to its completeness or accuracy.

 

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Transcript

Jeff Buchbinder: The telecom sector as it exists today is really only expected to generate low, single digit kind of earnings growth, after the reclassification, we'll be looking at a sector that is expected to grow earnings in double digit percentage rates. So, certainly faster growing, but you're going to pay more for that, because the evaluations will be higher, certainly the volatility will be higher as well, when markets are down.

So, those are things you have to keep in mind, this is not your mother and father's telecom sector.

John Lynch: From LPL Financial, welcome to Market Signals, I'm John Lynch.

Ryan Detrick: And I'm Ryan Detrick.

Hello, welcome to the latest edition of LPL Market Signals, I'm Ryan Dietrich, senior market strategist, and today we have a special guest on the line, Jeff Bookbinder, equity strategist with LPL research. Jeff how are you doing today?

Jeff: I'm doing great Ryan, it's good to be with you. Hello everybody.

Ryan: Jeff are you really doing great, I heard it was the first day of school up in Boston, how did it go this morning, that's the most important thing.

Jeff: Well, it went well overall, but I got to be honest, there was a little bit of anxiety, with my third grader, the first grader just took it in stride, but-

Ryan: Right.

Jeff: Third grader is a little nervous.

Ryan: Well, that's understandable, down here in South Carolina, we started two weeks ago, and I think it's definitely, the kids are doing fine now, it's always harder on the mom, you know, that's how it usually goes, right?

Jeff: Oh, I hear that.

Ryan: So, you know, welcome everyone again, we're looking forward to a really fun discussion with Jeff and I today, hopefully, you know, kind of here's an outline of what we're going to discuss today. We have the communications sector being added to the S&P 500, Jeff is an expert when it comes to the S&P 500 sectors. And, obviously he's our equity strategist, we're going to dive into kind of what exactly that means, also, this is September, welcome to September 1st. But historically, September is one of the worst months of the year, depending on how you look at it. I've got some numbers, we're going to talk a little bit about the "worst" month of the year.

And as we move into the lightning round, we have a few other things we're going to discuss. Going to take a look at valuations, I've read a very interesting tweet that kind of caught fire, we're going to discuss that interesting tweet that I took a look at.

Also, kind of the big events this week, and just overall September, what are some of the big market moving events?

So, Jeff, let's get right to it, in our recent weekly market commentary, that's coming out earlier this week, as well as the cover of Barrens, Barrens was talking about this weekend. We have a really big event happening, the communications sector is being added to the S&P 500 11 sectors. I'm just going to turn the stage over to you Jeff, that's why you're here. What do you think it means, and just tell our listeners, you know, what investors should expect when this takes place later this month?

Jeff: Yeah, thanks Ryan, this is big news, it's the biggest change to the S&P sectors we've ever had, if you just look at-

Ryan: Wow.

Jeff: How these stocks are moving. Essentially the Telecom services sectors is being revamped to become communications services, which is going to be dramatically different. We'll still have 11 S&P sectors, but the biggest change here is that the Telecom sector's not going to be a defensive, yield oriented sector anymore.

It's going to be faster growing, more economically sensitive, and kind of higher octane I guess you could say. So, that's really the biggest change, it's going to be much bigger too. The Telecom sector traditionally has only been a couple percent of the S&P, now it's going to be closer to 10. And then, we also have some changes in consumer discretionary, in addition to technology losing some of the big, so called fang stocks, and being maybe a little lower octane, let's say, the consumer discretionary sector's going to lose some media names that are shifting over to communications services.

So, it will be a smaller, less influential sector, after these changes later this month, and then, I think, Barrens did feature this, this weekend. I think one thing that they touched on a little bit that I think's a really big deal, is, now that the Telecom stocks, the traditional Telecom stocks are part of a bigger sector that's going to be of greater interest to folks. I think there's the potential for those stocks to have a little more demand from folks using sector products, than they used before.

So, this could be an incremental positive for those legacy Telecom names that people really weren't using in sector products before.

Ryan: That's interesting Jeff, you know, when I hear Telecom, obviously we have shades of obviously the late 90s when that was a very influential group, had a lot of large growers. But really, it feels like, in the last 10 or 15 years, the group really has just kind of like you said, been defensive, it's a smallish part of the overall S&P 500, so it kind of makes sense, I think, that this, well, obviously, hopefully it makes sense, right? That this decision has come in, I hope I'm not putting you on a spot.

What are some of the other kind of major sector changes we've seen over the years, Jeff, I mean, like you say, this is the biggest one ever. But, you know, going back, are there any other ones that, just to kind of put a bow around this, kind of what we can remember from history, and what maybe it means from that point of view?

Jeff: Sure, you don't have to go back far to find a pretty big one, not this big, but real estate was carved out of the financial sector, and that's when we went from 10 sectors to 11.

Ryan: Right.

Jeff: So, no, not necessarily any shifting around, like we're seeing now, just a carve out, but still a meaningful change, and, you know, the sector, investment products all had to adjust to that. Just like they're adjusting to this change. That's really about it, in this particular change, around 8% of the S&P is moving.

Ryan: Wow.

Jeff: That's a lot.

Ryan: It is. Now, I guess, you know, when you talk about the changes that are being made, I mean, Jeff, along with being, I mean equity strategist, what we're calling you here, but let's be honest, you're also a portfolio manager, you're a market strategist, you're also our earnings expert when it comes to LPL Research.

So, we've got this new group coming out, how do you think earnings in this communications sector will be a year or two from now? Can we expect it to be a major driver of earnings in the S&P 500, or will it lag? What do you think's going to happen there?

Jeff: Yeah, it'll be a faster growing-

Ryan: Yup.

Jeff: Sector no doubt. It's active in a weekly market commentary, out later today, I share some statistics on that. The telecom sector as it exists today is really only expected to generate low, single digit kind of earnings growth, after the reclassification, we'll be looking at a sector that is expected to grow earnings in double digit percentage rates. So, certainly faster growing, but you're going to pay more for that, because the evaluations will be higher, and certainly the volatility will be higher as well, when markets are down.

So, those are things you have to keep in mind, this is not your mother and father's Telecom sector, okay, like that.

Ryan: That's right, so, obviously, if the communications earnings are growing, we have to take it away from somewhere as those stocks filter around. Is it kind of, is, I guess, technology going to have a little bit lower earnings growth now, as some of those move around? Or, what's it look like for the other sectors that are being taken away from?

Jeff: Absolutely, because these fang stocks, social media, internet advertising names, you know, we know the big fang stocks. Those are coming out, not all of them, but some of them, are coming out, and so, therefore, technology will look a little bit more like it did, let’s say 10 years ago. So, you'll have slower growth, still above average, but you'll also have cheaper evaluations, and, potentially a little bit less volatility going forward.

Ryan: Alright, well that's really interesting, obviously Jeff, you know, this is obviously your world, and you’ve wrote a really interesting weekly market commentary as we inch closer. When is the actual date Jeff? We're saying later this September, is there an official date this should take place for this change?

Jeff: Yeah, there are several different dates.

Ryan: That's what I thought.

Jeff: Because you've got multiple index providers, and then the, the product sponsors that have different investment strategies around it have different dates for when they're making the changes. But I think the official date is September 28th-

Ryan: Okay.

Jeff: September 21st is another date that I think maybe will start the first wave. But yeah, it's coming soon.

Ryan: Well, that's after September 19th, one of my favorite days of the year, besides it’s my son's sixth birthday, it's also talk like a pirate day. So, September's just a great month I guess. Which is a good segue I think, Jeff, to our next discussion points here, the month of September. Historically speaking, since, least since 1950, September, when you look at the S&P 500, is actually the worst performing month, down 0.47 percent on average, it's higher, less than any month, on a percentage basis, as we just said, but also, in terms of how often it's higher. It's highest to lowest amount of the times, or closes positive is how I should say that, the lowest amount of times.

All in all, September's that scary-ish month, now Jeff, you know, I've got some more stats here, I want to get you in. I mean do you, what do you think? S&P's up five months in a row, we've got to be aware of this. Yes, we could have a well-deserved correction, we're making new all-time highs last week on the S&P. Up five months in a row, do you think investors should run for the hills here, or what do you think, we've had some doubts and volatility in September, what should investors be looking for?

Jeff: Well, certainly, given the ongoing trade disputes, given the fact that this year has been so strong so far, it wouldn't surprise me to have a little bit of volatility, certainly there's some challenges in emerging markets. Several of the smaller emerging markets anyway, that investors need to get comfortable with, we've got midterm elections, you've done a lot of work on that Ryan, historically we see some volatility ahead of that.

So, a little bit more volatility would be expected, but, you know, we haven't followed the seasonal pattern in recent months, right? This is supposed to be the seller may go away period, which is bad for stocks, and all we've seen is gains month after month, so it's really hard to rely on the seasonal patterns, I guess, since this market's really driven by fundamentals, maybe economic and policy fundamentals here. So, we'll just have to watch the news and, there are certainly some potential positive catalysts, even though maybe the media focuses more on the negative ones that could allow us to continue to outperform the historical pattern.

Ryan: Well, that's right, those are some great points there, you know, so, again, August historically has been a rough month as well, and the S&P gained over 3% for the best August since I believe it was 2014, and one of the best Augusts in general is going back, all the way back to 2000. Right there, that's impressive, and like you said, "Sell in May, go away." I know we talked about this in the podcast last week, but usually from May until Halloween are the worst six months of the year, and now we're looking at gains for five months in a row. So, clearly, we're kind of was laughing at the whole "Sell in May, go away" idea, but still it's important to note September can be that month, historically, when you have that downside volatility.

There's some bigger events this month, which Jeff and I'll get into later, but the one thing, Jeff, I'd like to point out. When the S&P begins the month above the 200-day moving average like it did in 2018 this year, the S&P is actually higher by about 0.5% in September. It's those months when the S&P is underperforming, is weak, you can get some really big downside moves. The stat that I was playing with ... and again, I wrote this in our blog last week, lplresearch.com, we did kind of a take a look at the month of September. September had a 30% drop in 1931, obviously The Great Depression, but in fact there's no other month that's had more 10% drops by the end of the month for the whole month than the month of September.

January is, interestingly, the only month to never have a 10% decline for the month, but the bottom line is, yes, September can be volatile. Yes, we're aware of a five-month win streak here. A well-deserved break could be in play. At the same time, as Jeff hinted at, the fundamentals continue to be positive. We still have a nice backstop potentially from the Fed, some of the things that they've been saying.

Jeff, maybe just talk about that for a second. You've obviously been following the Fed closely. We had the Fed in the news recently that kind of maybe saying we're not going to get that interest rate hike in December potentially. The market took that in stride and we had good gains last week. What do you think about the Fed here in the month of September?

Jeff: Well, the market's saying that we're going to get a third hike for the calendar year, and certainly we have no reason to argue with that, but Chair Powell's last comments suggest there is a chance that we will not get the fourth hike. I mean the Fed's been saying for a long time that they don't commit to moves well ahead of time, but based on where we're at here with economic growth, with inflation, with the job market, they clearly have enough justification for a fourth hike.

They have signaled that, that's sort of the default path, but if we see some sort of market shock ... we don't expect that, but we could see some sort of market shock here in the next few months that would cause them to pause at the end of the year. I think the market's pricing at about 60% chance of a hike in December. That seems reasonable. We would say maybe it's more likely than not, but far from assured.

Ryan: Okay. Yeah. I mean I guess to quote the great Jim Carey movie, Dumb & Dumber, "So, you're saying there's a chance, right?" I mean that's kind of I think where we're looking. The other thing I always kind of in the back of my head, if you look at when Fed rate hikes have been happening, we've had a December rate hike in 2015, '16, '17, so could there be on at the end of the year this year, but the bottom line, again, is there's a very, very strongly likelihood of a Fed rate hike later this month.

Jeff, maybe let's change gears here for a second, and let's go to the Lightning Round. We're just going to go to a couple of different questions. Jeff, again, you are an expert in the field and all of Wall Street when it comes to valuations and markets. Now, one of the knocks, and honestly I was seeing it just over weekend in my reading, the market is overvalued. Stocks are increasingly faster than earnings. I don't even know if I believe that, but I saw that headline. Nonetheless, market stocks are overvalued and that's one reason to be a little leery here. What is your take of valuations in general and what do you think investors should be aware of when it comes to valuations here?

Jeff: Yeah. It's a controversial topic. There are a lot of different valuations-

Ryan: That's why I asked you, Jeff. I'm not touching the controversial ones. I'm letting you do that one. Take it. That's all you.

Jeff: All right. I'll give it my best shot-

Ryan: There you go.

Jeff: Try not to get myself in trouble. Some people use what's been made famous by Robert Shiller, the tape measure cyclically adjusted P/E ratio, and that looks at 10 years of profits. I just think in this environment, as we approach the 10-year anniversary of the financial crisis, that 10-year look backs, that's too far back in the past. A lot of companies aren't around that were in the earnings numbers 10 years ago. So I prefer to look at more recent numbers, either trailing one year or estimates for a future year, and based on that, those metrics, we're pretty much fairly valued. If you factor in interest rates and inflation because stock valuations are connected to interest rates and inflation, we're maybe even a little bit below average valuations. I know that's hard for people to believe, but when inflation and interest rates are low like they are today, valuations tend to be higher.

We think a P/E ratio of 19 times trailing four quarters' earnings is quite reasonable here, and that's about where we are 19 to 20, and then a forward P/E of around 17, which is about where we are right now on next 12-month basis. That is reasonable as well and given we just got a strong ISM report far better than consensus, which is a survey that measures purchasing managers' intentions into the future. Will they buy more? Will they buy less? That's connected to earnings historically at least, and that is a very positive signal to suggest we're going to get continued solid earnings growth.

If you're going to get continued solid earnings growth and no recession, which is certainly our expectation for the next year plus, valuing stocks based on forward earnings we think is reliable. Inflection points in the economy estimates are not reliable, but today we're not certainly in that environment, we don't think. We like the valuations here and we still think stocks are favored to bonds.

Ryan: Great stuff there, Jeff. The one thing I always like to point out is the rule of 20, which is simply the P/E ratio plus inflation should be right around 20. Well, like you just said, we've got P/E multiples of either 17 or 19 with inflation running, we'll call 2.5% approximately. That's a little above 20, if my math is correct, but at the same time by no means is it super stretched. Again, it's very important to look at the overall valuations in the context of still historically low interest rates along with that low inflation.

So, Jeff, this week I kind of started a Twitter storm, I guess you could say ... last week. I'm sorry, last week I did. I did a playful tweet that took a look at the fact that the S&P 500 in the month of August had made four consecutive new all-time highs. I'm looking at all 12 months going back to 1928 or 1950, whichever one you want to use. The ones with the least number of all-time highs for the S&P is actually August, and sure enough, we had four in a row there. I took a look and the last time we had four new all-time highs for the S&P in a row, that's consecutively, in the month of August was 1987.

Now, I'm aware, anytime you mention 87 when it comes to social media, you're going to get a certain reaction from people. I did playful little animation of Kermit the Frog biting his fingers like he was nervous to kind of look under the surface that, yes, it's something to be aware of, but this is not 1987. So, Jeff, I've got some reasons why this is not '87. In a minute or two, why do you think, yes, we just made four new highs in August, but hopefully we don't have a crash coming. Why is this not 1987?

Jeff: Well, the biggest reason is stocks were surging in '87 leading up to Black Monday and the '87 crash. We were up in the neighborhood of 40% year-to-date leading up to that. So there was certainly more excessive optimism reflected in the markets at that time versus what we're experiencing today with stocks up around 9% or so year-to-date at this point. That's the biggest reason, but we're also not seeing the optimism in the derivative markets that we were seeing back then as well. Certainly. Portfolio hedging was part of the problem then. Maybe the good thing about the financial crisis in looking backwards is that it's led to a healthy amount of pessimism that's really persisted for 10 years.

Ryan: Sure has. You're right.

Jeff: People have been afraid to pay the dotcom bubble kind of valuations. We're not inflating bubbles as fast as we were because people remember what happens 10 years ago.

Ryan: That's right. I mean, yeah, you took exactly what I was going to say. You stretch that rubber band so far when the S&P's up about 40% year to date on top of some really, really big gains the five years before when the bull market, I guess you could say was born in August of 1982. The rubber band was stretched, and in the end ... and I always like to playfully point this out, people who say "87, 87," and we get it. There was a massive correction in October of 1987, the worst one-day drop ever. Nonetheless, the stocks gained in 1987, just barely, but they still managed to close higher. But, again, that's a playful stat, just kind of sometimes it's fun to show context around things. I think it's very important, yes, this is the last time this happened since '87, but this is a much different environment than 1987, fortunately.

So, Jeff, this is the month of September. Like we said, we kind of touched on this already, but then next question we have for the Lightning Round is for you. What do you think will be the big event this week? This is the first week of September. We've got some big things coming out later this week. What should our investors be on the lookout for any potential volatility or news-moving ideas this first week of September?

Jeff: Yeah. I think today is probably the big one. Now that we've seen the number, that ISM Manufacturing survey was big. It was the highest level, 61.3, the highest level of the entire economic expansion.

Ryan: I hadn't seen that yet. Wow, that's something.

Jeff: Yeah, it just came out right as we were about to start talking here.

Ryan: Okay. Yep. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

Jeff: You got to go back to '04 to find a number to match that. I think if you go back any further than that, you probably have to go back 30 plus year to find a number better. That is a very strong number. Historically, ISM peaks are not soon followed by recessions. If you just take the historical average, we've got several more years to go before the economy contracts. Obviously, every cycle's different. You never know for sure, but that's a very positive data point.

It'd be hard for the jobs report, which has been plodding along at what's called 150,000 to 200,000 jobs here for a while. That's a pretty good rate for this stage of the expansion. The consensus estimate is about 190,000 for Friday. That, if we can do that, would be a nice pickup from the prior month, but really nothing that changes the story, which is it's a very strong job market that just gets tighter and tighter.

We're potentially going to have more wage inflation here. That's good for workers, obviously, but the Fed doesn't want to see that. Maybe a watch-out is if that wage number in Friday's jobs reports picks up from 2.7%. That could cause folks to get a little bit nervous about the Fed.

Ryan: No, that makes a lot of sense. Also, some potential market moving events this week, on Wednesday ... remember, last week, the US and Canada were not able to reach an agreement in NAFTA. Their talks are supposed to start up again on Wednesday, so expect that to dominate the headlines. Also, the ISM services number comes out on Thursday, and then again the big monthly jobs number on Friday. It's a big week.

Looking out to the month, we touch on this already, but you have to say one of the definite big things this month is the Fed decision, interest rate decision, where we fully expect the Fed to hike rates a quarter point once again. Again, it's all about what they say.

Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong. There's a Q&A after this interest rate decision. Am I correct?

Jeff: I believe that's right, yes.

Ryan: Yeah, so definitely the Q&A is going to be very well watched for any potential clues, how the Fed chairman, Powell, implies if there's going to be another interest rate hike this year or not. But the bottom line is as we've seen from the Fed minutes that came out recently, there's definitely been some concern about all of the trade tariffs and the trade concerns. Obviously, as, Jeff, you just noted with that manufacturing number, my goodness. It's not slowing down the US economy apparently at all. Global economies, may be a different argument there, so what the Fed has to say.

But definitely later this month, that Fed decision's going to be a big one, and then just the fact it's the calendar. People say, "What's your big worry here?" We worry about the same things a lot of other places are worried about, potential inflation. Like you just said, it's a tight labor market. You could start to see a little more inflation. Could the tariffs slow down the overall global economy? But at the same time, the calendar, September, October of most years can be volatile to the downside. Also, mid-term years like we are now, no question you can have some downside volatility into that early November election of a midterm year.

Now, the really good news, the fourth quarter of this year, if you look at a four-year cycle of a presidential cycle, the fourth quarter of a midterm year, which again, starts up here about a month from now, is one of the strongest quarterly returns out of the four-year cycle. Also, the first and second quarters of the third year of the presidential cycle, which is going to be next year, are really strong.

What I'm getting at, over a four-year presidential cycle, these next three upcoming quarters are three of the strongest. But again, these things don't always play out. Like we said, some of them might go away. Surely, it hasn't worked this year, but it still is really important to be aware of this is probably not the time we're going to see a massive, massive equity selloff with the economy of things so strong.

Jeff, anything else we should be on the lookout overall this month, or maybe even go into a little bit early October if you want. Earning season's coming up, right? But what should we be on the lookout for next four to five weeks here?

Jeff: Yeah, I think the election's going to get a lot of attention certainly as we move into October, but trade is the big one now. Potentially we'll get something meaningful out of the Mueller report. But beyond that, I think we covered it all. I think we covered it all. It's really the Fed and the data. The fundamentals probably are going to support this market, economic fundamentals and corporate fundamentals.

Really, no matter what we think happens with the election, whether the Republicans lose the House, which a lot of people think is going to happen, you're probably in an environment where corporate America can continue to do pretty well, and the US economy can continue to shine relative to the rest of the world.

We mentioned emerging markets a little bit, the Turkey prices that's gotten a lot of attention, Argentina, Venezuela. There are trouble spots that we have to watch too, which certainly could continue to drive volatility, but the way we see it, those situations are not enough to derail this bull market. We see further gains between now and the end of the year.

Ryan: That's right. You know why they call them surprises, because you didn't see them coming, right? Who knows, there could be something in a couple weeks that no one's even seen or talking about, and that could be what catches us off-guard here. But as always here at LPL Research, we're going to be actively watching every single day and sharing our view.

Jeff, I had a lot of fun today. This was your first podcast. I've done a few of these. What did you think? How'd we do?

Jeff: I think we did well. I think we covered a lot of ground in a relatively short period of time, and hopefully all of our listeners found all of this interesting. I hope to be invited back, because you hate to do something once and then not again, because you know what that means.

Ryan: That's right. As a Cincinnati Bengals fan, I would take just one Super Bowl, Jeff. I'd be okay with just one Super Bowl win. As a Chiefs fan, you're a Chiefs guys, have they won a Super Bowl or not?

Jeff: They did-

Ryan: That's what I thought.

Jeff: ... before I was born.

Ryan: That counts, man.

Jeff: I don't really count that.

Ryan: Well, maybe not, but there you go.

Jeff: I've been waiting a long time just like you have.

Ryan: Yeah, and the Chiefs do play the Bengals this year, so we probably should not do a podcast that week. We can't talk to each other. That's just how it goes.

Jeff: We'll put our professional relationship ahead of maybe any personal animosity about that.

Ryan: That's right. That's it for this episode. A special thanks to Jeff Buchbinder for chatting with us this week.

Jeff: Great to be here, Ryan. Thanks a lot for having me.

Ryan: Join us next week when we'll continue to analyze and discuss market signals. Stay connected by following us on Twitter @LPL or @LPL Research. LPL Market Signals is presented and produced by LPL Financial. I'm Ryan Detrick. Thank you for listening.

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